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Dimitri Yachvili forgets he's playing rugby, backheels pass for Erik Lund try

I think you should have started this post with 'Once upon a time' and finished with 'and they all lived happily ever after' ... Rugby stories by the Grimms ..equally made up

Ps England v Ireland in 1982 .. I was there!

1 Year, 4 Months ago

Dimitri Yachvili forgets he's playing rugby, backheels pass for Erik Lund try

If Zebo had touched the ball win his hand (forward) and then done his trick then it would have been a knock on whether he subsequently caught it or not. But in fact he never touched it with his hand before he touched it with his foot (it went backwards from another players hand to his foot)
.. He never lost the ball forward from his hand therefore no knock on

1 Year, 4 Months ago

Dimitri Yachvili forgets he's playing rugby, backheels pass for Erik Lund try

As a ref you should know that a charge down (intentionally touching, but not catching the ball) puts the team mates of the kicker in front of the kick on side (law 11.3 c).

If the ball goes forward from a charge down it is not a knock on (law 12 exception) but that does not mean that law 11 (offside law) does not apply .. There are no charge down exceptions given to this law.

Thus Yachvili was offside and should not have played that ball. Penalty.

1 Year, 4 Months ago

Dimitri Yachvili forgets he's playing rugby, backheels pass for Erik Lund try

Drop kick scenario ..player lets go of ball forward and kicks it ..no problem ..play on (whether he gets kick over post or not)
..but if player lets go of ball intending to drop goal and misses it with foot = knock forward

heel scenario ..player lets go of ball forward and heels it = knock on

however if ball already on ground in open play ..or ball has been dropped on to ground backwards (or a charge down) ..and ball is heeled = play on

ie the heeling is not the offence ..the loss of possession from hands forward is the offence

1 Year, 4 Months ago

Dimitri Yachvili forgets he's playing rugby, backheels pass for Erik Lund try

I think it is easy to use this as an example of a possible occurrence that simply isnt covered in law ..and as such it is ignored (rather than trying to bend it into a different law). I like the scenario of somebody 'heeling' the ball into touch .. is it a kick out on the full? ..well we have just defined that a heel is not a kick ..but it is also not a throw (as if a player threw the ball (on purpose) into touch that would be a penalty. In practice I think this would be regarded as a kick and if somehow they had managed to heel the ball into touch on the full and gained ground ..I personally would take the line out back to where the ball was kicked (heeled)!

But to your other point, possession is defined (regarded) as physically having hold (control) of the ball which I believe can only be with the hands (unless you have a very big mouth!!) ..therefore losing possession can also only be from the hands. Touching the ball with any other part of the body (foot, heel, chest, nose) is not having possession. If you've not had it, you can't lose it.

1 Year, 4 Months ago

Dimitri Yachvili forgets he's playing rugby, backheels pass for Erik Lund try

so did the ball go towards the opposition line from the hands ..that is all that matters.
ps I just checked (moment of doubt) there is no mention of chest or head (or heel) in the laws of the game

1 Year, 4 Months ago

Dimitri Yachvili forgets he's playing rugby, backheels pass for Erik Lund try

not sure I can see how a player can face their own line, drop the ball behind them and it hit their own knee (without them very quickly turning a round ..my knee always faces the same way I am). But in that example ..they had possession of the ball (in their hands and threw it forward (towards opposition line) ..so as long as it was not a kick (as defined) it would be a throw forward. So yes if it hit knee or heel in this example it would be an offence ..but not because it hit heel or knee; the offence is for the loss of possession. However if you mean they throw the ball towards their own line and then 'knee' it back over their own head towards opposition line ..then again it is play on as they have not lost possession forward

1 Year, 4 Months ago

Dimitri Yachvili forgets he's playing rugby, backheels pass for Erik Lund try

as cheyanqui is pointing out above the relevance of when a kick is official or not is only relevant for the various points in the game when a 'kick' is required ..ie starts, restarts, FKs, PKs and drop outs. At no other point is a kick required so at no other point is it important. Kicking, heeling, kneeing, chesting, heading in open play is allowed (by definition it is NOT not allowed) ..so there was no offence (after the offside!) so no scrum to opposition

1 Year, 4 Months ago

Dimitri Yachvili forgets he's playing rugby, backheels pass for Erik Lund try

according to the LOTG you can only have possession of a ball in your hands..therefore losing possession can only be by having held it in your hands and it going forward from your hands ... therefore anything involving feet is not relevant to the knock on law or sanctions

1 Year, 4 Months ago

Dimitri Yachvili forgets he's playing rugby, backheels pass for Erik Lund try

21.3 c Bouncing the ball on the knee is not taking a kick.
Sanction: Any infringement by the kicker’s team results in a scrum at the mark. The opposing team throws in the ball.

1 Year, 4 Months ago

 
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