Tuesday, September 13, 2011

England's Courtney Lawes suspended for two weeks

England will be without lock Courtney Lawes for their next two Pool B games in the Rugby World Cup after he was cited and subsequently suspended for two weeks after he was found guilty of kneeing Argentina's Mario Ledesma.

Lawes will miss out on England's next two matches against, against Georgia and Romania respectively, but will be available for their crunch meeting with Scotland. His offence was found to be in the lower end, which is usually a three week punishment, but his previous clean record and the remorse he showed meant that it was lowered to just the two weeks off.

Hooker Steve Thompson admitted that the England came were relieved that he will be available for the Scotland match, while coach Martin Johnson has said that he felt Lawes was simply trying to get across to make a try saving tackle.

"They obviously saw it a bit differently, but the good thing for us squad-wise is we have some very good players who can come in," said Johnson.

The incident occured just a minute after Lawes made a huge hit on center Gonzalo Tiesi, which resulted in him being rules out of the rest of the tournament with knee ligament damage.

Posted by Rugbydump at 12:41 pm | View Comments (77)

Posted in Rugby World Cup

Viewing 77 comments

siltirocker September 13, 2011 2:41 pm

sickening stuff. Himself and that Armitage lad need to be sat down over a classroom day or two and be shown how to tackle with out hurting dudes.

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skay2k September 13, 2011 2:43 pm

Lawes is a serious operator,he makes absolutely brutal hits every time he gets on the pitch but this was just reckless.

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Gaffney September 13, 2011 2:47 pm

I can't see who was the initial tackler but it looks like there was a head on head collision there. I still think that Lawes flew in with little regard for player safety. Two weeks may be too much.

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chris September 13, 2011 2:49 pm

Seems harsh to me, first one is only a tad late and he is committed. Second one he leads with the knee, its another Simon Shaw lions moment for me and personally I don't see it as deliberate.

He's a big hitter sure, not sure about the ^ armitage comment, his disciplinary record has been poor of late but hes not a bad tackler.

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Full Back September 13, 2011 8:05 pm

I agree with the late hit on Tiesi, he was committed and that can be expected at this level.
The knee on Ledesma however, had to be deliberate, it would have taken far less effort to avoid him. He clearly went out of his way to get his knees in there and deserves at least 2 weeks in my opinion. Someone of that weight and size should appreciate the damage he could do if he caught the guy on his temple or hit his neck the wrong way. It's the last advertisement that rugby needs.
If you want to see good clean physical, look at guys like Todd Clever.
As for Lawes' record, he's still quite new on the circuit, his making his name now, and seems to be going the wrong way about it.

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Dave Beal September 28, 2011 10:14 am

"If you want to see good clean physical, look at guys like Todd Clever."

Clean, because he gets away with it? The late, high shoulder-charge against Russia was a worse piece of foul play than this, could easily have broken the Russian player's neck, and gets no sanction from the citing panel. Hardly the mark of a clean, hard physical player.
I still think Lawes was reckless rather than malicious, a two game ban's about right given the potential consequences, but when the citing process is so inconsistent it's no wonder that some players overstep the mark.

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Citing Commissioner September 13, 2011 2:49 pm

I don't know whether this is a citing or not. The first tackle was completely legitimate as he was committed and used arms, brought him down safely... however the fact Tiesi got injured didn't help the subsequent situation. The second incident at first seemed pretty innocuous however the replay shows what appears to be Lawes dropping in his knee, was this deliberate, the video seems inconclusive, and only Lawes will know the truth, it's a massive call by the 'real' Citing Commissioner. A couple of questions, if this happened in a Romania vs Georgia match would anybody care and also if Lawes hadn't knocked out his opponent would anybody actually have noticed? I'm not saying it is the wrong call, however I do feel Lawes can feel unlucky on the citing - but then again lucky it's only 2 matches!

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Xenophile September 13, 2011 4:01 pm

Well it was a citing, and it has been ruled as a suspension as noted above. Your response seems to suggest that if a similar incident happened between two lesser teams, that maybe no one would care. I disagree strongly. As any game on this stage (international, nevermind the RWC) between any opponents is important, and any actions such as Lawes should be stamped out of the game. Regardless of whether the opponent was knocked out or not, Lawes' actions were reckless, dangerous and could have seriously injured the opponent. I'm all for hard, assertive and physical rugby, but I'm also a firm believer that Lawes crossed the fine line of physical and dangerous.

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xxxwookie September 13, 2011 2:49 pm

Possibly a bit harsh. All the talk about the tackle on Tiesi is bogus as he clearly committed to the tackle before the ball had gone, the reports on it are all over because of the result of the tackle and not the nature of it.

Same with the Ledesma incident. He's running over to make the cover tackle, Ledesma is brought down and Lawes goes down to try and stop. Way I see it, he had two options, either run over him and risk studding him or drop early which unfortunately resulted in the knee in the face.

I'm surprised as I saw 3 spear tackles at the weekend in the world cup and one in the premiership. The one in the premiership is cited while none of the 3 on the biggest stage are looked at twice

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Full Back September 13, 2011 8:08 pm

he could have simply jumped over him in my opinion, would have taken less effort

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Nick Blane September 13, 2011 2:52 pm

Rubbish. No evidence what so ever to prove there was any intention to strike with the knee. What 50% (Aussies and Welshers) see as disgraceful, 50% see as a very big guy running at full speed trying to pull out of a tackle and unfortunately injuring the other player. Yet it's this that is the only act the authorities decided to pick out from the weekend, rather than the obvious spear tackles, elbows and eye gouges that went on.

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ropeycentre September 13, 2011 3:02 pm

No intention is required NB - the offence covers "reckless" contact with the knee and I am sure he was done on this limited basis, which is why it is only 2 weeks. Clearly a shot across the bows for the young lad which will help to keep him honest in future games.

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Saffer September 13, 2011 2:52 pm

I hope he gets to meet Bakkies Botha. He will get the spanking his father should have given him - if he had a father....

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ropeycentre September 13, 2011 3:06 pm

Err Saffer - I think you'll find that everyone has a father. Lawes certainly does have one called Linford.

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xxxwookie September 13, 2011 2:54 pm

I think "citing commissioner" hit the nail on the head with it being more the result of the action than the action itself. How often do we see the second tackler sliding into a player that's already down with no punishment or acknowledgement that it was dangerous?

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wexman September 13, 2011 2:55 pm

Probably the right call but it doesn't really matter anyway because of the next two matches, I'm sure that was in the back of the Commissioners mind.

On a side note how unbelievably terrible are the ITV commentators?? The main guy just doesn't know what he is talking about and talks like he is watching a soccer match and Phil Vickery can barely put a sentence together, while both are ridiculously biased! At least the Sky and RTE commentary is somewhat entertaining even if they are a little biased. ITV and BBC commentary should be morphed into one!!!

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ABE ruggerman September 13, 2011 3:33 pm

Thoroughly agreed. Phil Vickery makes Brian Moore seem eloquent. I always tune the radio or internet to an alternative commentary with less English bias.

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stroudos September 13, 2011 2:55 pm

(Re-posted from a previous comments board):
I think this was a bit of a cheap shot, but his thought process would have been "I don't really care if I clatter him while stopping the try", as opposed to "right, I'm going to clatter this bar steward". Also, he has a distinct lack of previous for foul play. He's usually a clean, but abrasive and physical, player and that good record has obviously been taken into account.

There's a rumour England may even appeal the two-week sentence, but I sincerely hope they don't. I think it's a fair verdict and Lawes & England should take the medicine.

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jmr003 September 13, 2011 2:58 pm

Lawes was very hard done.

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Mark September 13, 2011 3:01 pm

Well I'll say it then THAT IS COMPLETELY THE WRONG CALL. You can tell by the way that Lawes goes to ground that he had no intention of using his knee(s) to cause harm.

Lawes is flying across the pitch at full speed and Armitage gets the guy to ground before he gets there, so Lawes contact with the Argentine player is clumsy, but absolutely nothing more.

SILTIROCKER, I'm not sure where you're from, but I assume you don't play rugby. These things happen from time to time. In International, professional rugby they will happen because you have very large, very hard men trying to physically dominate each other to win the contest. That first hit by Lawes is a prime example. He could have done nothing else. Who's to say if he had not gone in like that that the Argentine player wouldn't have dummied and gone on to score? He was committed BEFORE the ball was kicked. It was a hard tackle, and it it VERY unfortunate that the tackled player was injured, but just like Wallace in the Eng v Ireland warm-up game being hit by Tuilagi, injuries can occur in legitimate tackles.

If players get cited for stuff like this will they go in softer in the future? If so two things will happen. Rugby will become a poorer and less interesting sport to play & watch. Also, as any player knows, MORE people will get injured. Go in half-arsed and players get hurt much more often. Hit the contact area with commitment and every if, in general, much safer for it (and the game stays fun!)

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stroudos September 13, 2011 3:02 pm

@wexman - I watched this game with the TV on mute and the Alternative Rugby Commentary - arcrugby.co.nz - streaming live on the computer. Thoroughly recommend it. Downside is it's a second or two behind but it's more than worth it. **** me that Jed Thian is one seriously funny bastard.

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sampounds September 13, 2011 3:02 pm

luckily he wont miss any crucial games. poor citing, as it was never in any way intentional. You could see he was going down to make a tackle but pulled out. People get hurt, bodily parts collide..... its rugby!

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Gungehammer September 13, 2011 3:04 pm

First tackle, no problems, fantastic hit. Second "tackle" was reckless and dangerous and deserved a minimum sentence, which is what he got. What we want is consistency ... Botha, Cooper!

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wexman September 13, 2011 3:07 pm


Cheers man, I must check that out. Does he do every match or just the big one of the day? I'm guessing the latter

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dustinp68 September 13, 2011 3:10 pm

He was in no way responsible for the injury on the second tackle. The initial hit caused the concussion to the Argentinian and there was no knee to the head whatsoever by Lawes. If anything he slowed up and made contact with his crotch or upper thigh/lap which was not at all very hard. This suspension is garbage.

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Rucking Hell September 13, 2011 3:12 pm

Lets see, 17 and half stone there about, 6ft 7 tall, travelling at 15mph +, no brakes, VSC, ASC, DSC and any other an acronym you can think of, what the hell is he meant to do, he's committed to going in, no way of stopping- I don't know, leap like a salmon perhaps into the side hoarding. Anyway, he must have steel b***s as he whacked him with his crotch.

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ABE ruggerman September 13, 2011 3:37 pm

What's he meant to do? Not lead with his knees!

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Rucking Hell September 13, 2011 3:48 pm

Not sure if he was deliberately leading with his knees though, I'm only a small un' myself so can only surmise that it is harder for the big un's to get down and slide/ tackle an opponent into touch.
Perhaps it's a malaise of the modern game that so many players now slide into opponents when they are in the process of crossing or attempting to cross the try line that awkward looking tackles are made.

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stroudos September 13, 2011 3:13 pm

Couple of people - including Hugh MadBrough - suggested on the other post that Ledesma was milking this incident and pretending to be knocked out. I've now watched this again and am 100% convinced there's no play-acting going on here!!

Tell you what else I've noticed - the initial tackle by Wigglesworth is a great hit on a big gnarly unit like Ledesma. Also, quite amusing how he (Wigglesworth) also gets taken out by Lawes (head-clash by the looks of it) and then he gets taken out by the other tacklers (basically Easter throws Armitage and the Argentine fullback on top of him), and yet I don't think he was down for that long. Resilient little bastard took quite a lot of punishment and bounced back up no problems.

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wow-jiffy-lube September 13, 2011 3:14 pm

The tackle on Tiesi had nothing to do with the citing, it was just shown as a big hit. The second incident though was reckless. Obviously Lawes was trying to ensure that Ledesma was put in touch but the manner in which he did so, leading with the knees with his upper body leaning backwards, can have only one (dangerous) outcome. I don't think it was malicious, just careless. I think two weeks is fair as, as was pointed out, the usual penalty is at least three. An unfortunate situation but it could be worse: Two relatively inconsequential games (no offence meant to the Georgians or Romanians) missed, in which Lawes, as a first choice lock (perhaps THE first choice lock), may well not even have played in, and he's no doubt learned a lesson from the experiance and will be a better player for it.

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RKeller September 13, 2011 3:18 pm

Doesn't look good to me - reckless at best, very dirty at worst. Not sure how they can claim he showed remorse as a reason for a less-than-minimum length ban when he didn't give a damn during the game and pleaded not guilty to recklessness?

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RedYeti September 13, 2011 3:20 pm

Good to see sensible comments on here for once, except for the Armitage comparison. Lawes was hardly going to gently trot up to Ledesma as he steamrollered towards the tryline was he? Lawes went in hard and committed, and was unfortunate as Ledesma was tackled by another player and fell, meaning Lawes had to try to get almost to floor level to make the hit. It was his crotch and not his knee anywaey...

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Malcolm Bradbrook September 13, 2011 3:20 pm

Difficult one I think. It certainly was not the kind of tackle that should be encouraged and the IRB should act. However, when considered against the meagre punishment handed out to Mealamu for the deliberate diving headbutt on Lewis Moody in November and the lack of punishment for Cooper's knee to McCaw's head, it seems very harsh.

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RedYeti September 13, 2011 3:20 pm

Oh and if it means anything, my sister spoke to Courtney on Facebook yesterday, and he said he barely remembered it, and certainly did not deliberately go in with a knee. Bakkies Botha he is not

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ropeycentre September 13, 2011 3:28 pm

Excellent name drop Red Yeti!

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Rucking Hell September 13, 2011 3:50 pm

Brains where his b***s are if he can't remember that :)

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Nick Blane September 13, 2011 3:23 pm

That is true. However wouldn't make sence to cite the people who intentialally try to injure players first? No instead the first citing and only citing of the world cup is for this.

Can anyone say honestly that they did not see worse done with more intention this weekend?

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Malcolm Bradbrook September 13, 2011 3:50 pm

Talking of consistency. There is this incident which RD highlight last year


Hape clearly taken out by a flying shoulder charge by Toeava which Dan Carter then followed up with a sliding double knee.

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RedYeti September 13, 2011 3:57 pm

I'm so glad the majority of Facebook commentators don't seem to have discovered this comments section, jesus...

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i love bacon September 13, 2011 4:34 pm

Which is why I'd be more than happy to never see the site integrate facebook or twitter commenting.

(...though, I'm not the site's owner, and ya can't blame someone for just trying to pay the bills...)

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medicaluke September 13, 2011 4:02 pm

I have to agree that there is consistency needed. This seemed to only get a citing because Ledesma got knocked out. I think it was reckless but I think Lawes' only concern was to stop a try. Probably could have been avoided. 2 weeks does seem a bit harsh.
It definitely wasn't the worse unpenalised challenge of the weekend. Think the citing commissioner needs to watch his videos again.
Fortunately, the games to be missed are Romania and Georgia, so nothing major.

Nice to know I'm not the only one annoyed by ITV's commentators. Didn't think it could get any worse than Brian Moore or Stuart Barnes, but ITV have succeeded!

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moddeur September 13, 2011 4:52 pm

You haven't heard Christian Jeanpierre, the French commentator on the "TF1" channel, a channel not normally known for showing rugby matches (but rather known for what its director, Patrick Le Lay, once said: "our job is to make people's brains available so that they can buy Coca-Cola").
Anyhow so this commentator, Christian Jeanpierre, is normally a football commentator. Well during South Africa - Wales, he kept on saying "they are now at the 30m mark ...". He also kept on confusing Charteris and Alun Wyn Jones. He then said that a line-out cannot be played quickly if the ball touches an advertising panel. He also said that he met the All-Blacks and didn't find them physically impressive. What a douchebag ...

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mpc-33 September 13, 2011 7:03 pm

Mate, i can only agree with you. Christian Jean-Pierre is the douchebag's king. He was just stupid on the first game with the ABs. During France vs Japan, he pissed me off so much that i was shouting all alone against him in front of my TV. I haven't been able to enjoy the first half thanks to his services (and with the help of Thierry Lacroix).
During the Welsh vs South Africa Game, he reached a turning point... He hasn't been able to pronounce "Faletau" during the whole game. He called him Fatelau or Taufalea...
But it wasn't the worst...
I don't know if you have noticed : When F.Steyn caught the ball downfield, he has announced "Du Plessis" several times...
I didn't undestand until some point, cause its sooo damned stupid.
The replacing hooker, with the number 16 (on the game sheet) was Bismark Du Plessis. He thought he saw 16 instead of 15 on Steyn's jersey and announced that a hooker was going on at fullback, throwing up-and-under and etc ! And it never shocked him.
At this point, I turned the sound off and put RMC radio. Fortunatly, sound and image were almost synchronised. I am soooo happy now i know i don't have to hear him again.
Honestly, the second commentator team on France 2 did a perfect job during Namibia vs Fidji, in a game with many unknown players. And TF1 made a mess with their "best" commentators in game between major nations foul of superstars.

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moddeur September 13, 2011 10:33 pm

Well France2 does have some good experience in rugby commentating, they show the VI nations, some HC cup matches, and their pal channel France4 shows some of the Under20s games etc.
But TF1 commentators are to rugby commentators what coca-cola is to champagne ...
In fact there is now a brand new Facebook page called "Shut the f*** up Christian JeanPierre" (in French, I'm just translating here, but you get the point) and it's nearly got 500 "likes" already.

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Geat September 13, 2011 4:10 pm

You don't need to look back as far as last year to find an inconsistent ruling:


If what Lawes' did was intentional, then so was Cooper's - he didn't receive a ban.

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i love bacon September 13, 2011 4:37 pm

No, but Cooper was cited for that.

You're right in that the rulings weren't consistent, but nothing ever is. Maybe if McCaw was knocked out, it would've turned out differently...I'm not sure.

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Full Back September 13, 2011 8:12 pm

I think there's a difference between catching someone as your getting up and sliding into them at pace.

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Verci September 13, 2011 4:19 pm

Really?! English player almost killing some one?! That doesn't happen very often does it. I can only think of about 100 such similar incidents that where not caught.

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BuzzKillington September 13, 2011 9:11 pm

Strange that Will Greenwood cannot spell Courtney. Nothing against the man but I'd have expected him to know the spellings of England players, or at least double check with Google.

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i love bacon September 13, 2011 4:40 pm

As a few people have pointed out...it doesn't really matter that much. So he misses a pair of matches that should go alright for England...

It's a bit of a silly "lesson", but the IRB is not above theatrics just to get players' attentions. Suspend a guy for two weeks for what was a borderline reckless tackle (needless, yes, but not really "malicious"), and they probably feel like they're doing something to prevent it from happening again. They're not, because it will happen regardless...but, Lawes shouldn't care all that much, since he'll be back in it for Scotland...and it's not like he won't be at training sessions, right? It's not like they've sent him back to England to think about what he's done in a dark corner somewhere...

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i love bacon September 13, 2011 4:50 pm

Also, I'm not sure if it was negligent by the medics or just totally badass by Ledesma (I'm leaning towards the latter, since he'll do his best to stay on the pitch no matter what), but he got up after being knocked out cold, and when he came to, he was right in the middle of a lineout and a maul.

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medicaluke September 13, 2011 10:00 pm

Had Ledesma truly been knocked out then IRB rules stipulate he must be taken off the pitch. Either he was milking it (as suggested further down) or it is extreme negligence by the Argentine medics and they should be censured by the IRB.
I think the first tbh

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moddeur September 13, 2011 4:43 pm

The first tackle is a bit late, but since Lawes only has half a brain (when on the field) he probably had no clue whatsoever that Tiesi would pass the ball before getting hit. The knee on Ledesma is totally reckless for sure, but who knows if it's intentional. 2 matches seems ok but this would tend to put the Quade Cooper case in the spotlight.

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Hugh MadBrough September 13, 2011 5:27 pm

Ledesma was ****ing milking it!! How can anyone else not see this, seriously? He was buying time for Argentina to regroup. I admit he was probably dazed at the start but not for a whole minute or two.

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Hugh MadBrough September 13, 2011 5:30 pm

Plus he wasnt knocked out I think, since you can see him move his head and left hand.

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Blackened September 13, 2011 6:37 pm

I speak has someone who hates English rugby more than Beelzebub himself, but that citing was a crock. Nothing wrong with either tackle.

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Colombes September 13, 2011 6:48 pm

2 weeks ban is perfectly adequat for me. It was not malicious, just dangerous and reckless from Lawes. the England staff could be happy with it and they didn't complain too much as the matchs against romania and georgia won't be deadly difficult.

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icyitscold September 13, 2011 6:49 pm

Cooper looks like he deliberately knees McCaw in the head during the tri-nations final game and gets nothing - Laws dive looks to be reckless but accidental and he gets two weeks... Where is the consistency? Surely Cooper should have gotten at least two weeks but that would have ruled out Australia's golden boy from two of their biggest pool games! The way the referees blatantly favour southern hemisphere teams is appalling..

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VOLRUFC October 04, 2011 5:18 pm

Finally someone with a bit of NH sense! the amount of times they let the SH teams get away with beyond blatant feeding annoys me aswell

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Juggernauter September 13, 2011 6:50 pm

The first tackle on Tiesi was a good, solid hit. Arms were used, he commited before Tiesi kicked the ball (he could have faked the kick and kept running, so there's nothing wrong with the early commitment).

The second one, I see it as a way to make sure Ledesma was in touch, and he dropped the knee in order to slide through tje grass and get to him. No malice whatsoever!

You'd be amazed at how the argentinean commentators reacted. Raul Taquini asked for a red card straight away, and the two others spoke of the "malice" that is, as they said "a big characteristic of Lawes' way of playing". Patricio Albacete, the lock, said prior to the game that the english were "cocky over confident players". Bullsh*t, if you ask me.

I surely hope the Pumas get rocked by Romania and Geoargia, and lose to the Scots. I can't stand their c*ckiness any more.

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Full Back September 13, 2011 8:20 pm

The second one was late, unnecessary and easily avoidable. He could have just hopped over the guy. if you look at it again, he almost changed direction to make sure he got his knee in there.
I'm amazed that there's so much doubt about the malice or intent, and frankly don't see where the surprise is that the Argies were pissed.
Not sure what cocky has to do with either side in this case.

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Hendogo September 13, 2011 8:59 pm

I agree with full back very easily avoidable.

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Bob September 13, 2011 10:42 pm

Watch the second slow motion replay, from the side.

This is a clear case of teabagging. Aka, balls to the head. I don't even see the knee make contact.

Someone said earlier that the tacklers clashed heads - I'm inclined to agree (because they're right).

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Ronan September 13, 2011 11:26 pm

lawes your card is marked you,ll get yours.....

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Jennered September 13, 2011 11:43 pm

The first tackle is completely legitimate; a very good hit in fact. The second incident seems accidental, for a start why would a young guy making his world cup debut with a previously impeccable record decide to drop a knee into Ledesma's head? It makes absolutely no sense and cannot just be put down to hotheadedness. Perhaps it wasn't the best positioning but that is hardly an offence.

Bit of a knee jerk reaction really.

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Japan September 14, 2011 12:45 am

I was at the recent Ireland versus England match and was close to Lawes for the first half. Make no mistake about it this is a player who is entirely focussed on hurting other players. I agree with the comments comparing him with Armitage whos's another dirty palyer. The issue form England is that they are both very talented - its possiblem that England could be far better rugby team if they focussed on playing good rugby like in the Will Carling and Jeremy Guscott era.

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HeavyHooker September 14, 2011 1:46 am

No matter how many times I watch this hit from the different angles i cannot see the knee contact with the head. I see Lawes hit him with his privates; I see him roll over; I even see him try and spread his legs prior to the hit. I do not see intent, carelessness, or knee contact. Lawes was at a full tilt run and I defy anyone, professional or not, to pull up out of a tackles with that sort of speed on after initial committment.

Bad call

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flyingpepper September 14, 2011 2:32 am

Agree with HeavyHooker above it seems more that he hits into his body no the head. I wonder though if he back out of jumping the player as there is a camera man in the way. Though that would have made a great youtube video

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Bob September 14, 2011 4:25 am

Heavyhooker is spot on. Well done that man.

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tpsk September 14, 2011 5:02 am

It is still funny how English men allways get out pretty well of these incidents...
2 matches out, but fortunately back for Scotland...
I wonder what would have happened if aan Argentinian or a French would have done the same to English players.
Hope to meet you in 1/4.

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Matthew September 14, 2011 12:20 pm

Moral of the story for Courtney seems to be: next time, splatter the cameraman.

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Morgan September 14, 2011 2:29 pm

I've watched this (and the last two) England games back and focused on Lawes, his positioning and his tackling. Often he is late, often he get's spot on and often it's 50/50. His work rate overall is incredible and descion making in the Argentina game with ball in hand perfect. There is a nasty streak but then, without sounding too flipant, so what? Most teams at any level have at least one. My only wish would be that his playing ability is not overshadowed by the darker side of his game. The last thing we need is our very own Bakkis Botha, internationaly regarded as a great player but a cheating coward none the less.

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Jere ARG September 15, 2011 3:54 am

Some of the guys writting here... you just say stuff as you were there, did you ever played rugby? You always know the damage you can make, thats a big part of the training, so I think English or Argentinian this "on the edge hits" cannot happen anymore. Regards!

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Pie September 15, 2011 8:00 am

ronan - thats one of the most ridiculous things ive ever read on here, what do you even mean?!?

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bokkexv September 15, 2011 6:22 pm

If this had been a Springbok flying into an England player this board would be awash with talk of thuggery this and gentleman's game that... quit your crying, take the suspension move and move on.

As for the black jerseys, disrespectful idea, gimpy looking execution and the numbers didn't even stay on. Poor form all round.

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